Human Lice Study


For discussion of the evidence pertaining to the first people of the Americas.

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Post Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:02 am

Re: Human Lice Study

There are a few I've been wanting even more than Hooton's 5 Texas Crania notes. One, which I didn't see on the first round was Stephenson's Campsites of the Upper Trinity which was written in the mid '20's before the Bulletin was formalized. TAS had one copy when I was a member and they were talking about reprinting the whole archive when I left.

That seems to be the value of some of these old papers. They deal with sites that have been foregotten, but still may yield valuable finds. In my neck of the woods, Southern California (West Texas to Charlie), there were early skull finds near the beach communities that were stored, misplaced and lost.

Thanks for the offer Allan. BTW, George Webber gave me the go ahead to modify and publish the English translation of Hugo Reichelt's 1900 paper analyzing the Dorenberg Skull. Too bad he didn't sketch a picture!
ROXRCUL
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Post Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:21 am

Re: Human Lice Study

Reichelt's 1900 paper analyzing the Dorenberg Skull


Great, Pat!!

I look forward to reading it.
Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis Artifacts from Central Texas
www.preclovis.com
http://forum.preclovis.com

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Post Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:38 pm

Re: Human Lice Study

Cognito wrote:
There are a few I've been wanting even more than Hooton's 5 Texas Crania notes. One, which I didn't see on the first round was Stephenson's Campsites of the Upper Trinity which was written in the mid '20's before the Bulletin was formalized. TAS had one copy when I was a member and they were talking about reprinting the whole archive when I left.

That seems to be the value of some of these old papers. They deal with sites that have been foregotten, but still may yield valuable finds. In my neck of the woods, Southern California (West Texas to Charlie), there were early skull finds near the beach communities that were stored, misplaced and lost.

Thanks for the offer Allan. BTW, George Webber gave me the go ahead to modify and publish the English translation of Hugo Reichelt's 1900 paper analyzing the Dorenberg Skull. Too bad he didn't sketch a picture!


I can't wait to read that rare piece of scholarship, Cogs! Good work; your 15 minutes of fame is assured. I just read a few days ago that some of the Xochipala-style figurines from Mexican President Diaz' collection had surfaced from the Museum of Natural History's collections. There is little doubt in my mind that these are some William P. Niven recovered from the ruins in Guererro back around the time of the Mexican Revolution. While they are not anywhere near the age or significance of the Dorenberg Skull, there are all kinds of hints in those artifacts of a very foreign influence from perhaps across the Pacific or maybe just a few thousand miles down the coast in Peru or Chile. Diaz had a great collection of these rare artifacts which is why he and Niven hit it off so well when Niven was down there working on some civic and mining projects for the Mexican government shortly before Villa and Zapata threw a big monkey wrench into his whole trip. Niven was running into the same problems with INAH (or at least its immediate predessor) when he began to find what sounds like Clovis or pre-Clovis bones and artifacts in the mountains of western Mexico, that the Classic Valsequillo members would decades later with Lorenzo & Co. I've misplaced my Niven biography again, but from memory I seem to recall that Niven's artifacts were seized in a raid on his little rock shop in Mexico but they didn't think the bones were worth bothering with. Who knows but what they wound up in Lorenzo's closets too. Niven's family still has his original field notes, so maybe someone will hit that paper trail again and turn up some clues on those bones.

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Post Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:00 am

Re: Human Lice Study

Diaz had a great collection of these rare artifacts which is why he and Niven hit it off so well when Niven was down there working on some civic and mining projects for the Mexican government shortly before Villa and Zapata threw a big monkey wrench into his whole trip.

The Mexican Revolution that began in 1910 and the outbreak of World War I in 1914 took a serious toll on German businesses in that country. Dorenberg, Peterson & Co. wound up on the "Additions to the Enemy Trading List" as published by the New York Times on April 22, 1918. See: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 946996D6CF

Hate it when that happens! 8O
ROXRCUL

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Post Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:32 pm

Re: Human Lice Study

Cognito wrote:
Diaz had a great collection of these rare artifacts which is why he and Niven hit it off so well when Niven was down there working on some civic and mining projects for the Mexican government shortly before Villa and Zapata threw a big monkey wrench into his whole trip.

The Mexican Revolution that began in 1910 and the outbreak of World War I in 1914 took a serious toll on German businesses in that country. Dorenberg, Peterson & Co. wound up on the "Additions to the Enemy Trading List" as published by the New York Times on April 22, 1918. See: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 946996D6CF

Hate it when that happens! 8O

Well, I'm definitelty going to have to go on another great excavation and find my copy of:
Buried Cities, Forgotten Gods: William Niven's Life of Discovery and Revolution in Mexico and the American Southwest
By Robert S. Wicks and Roland H. Harrison (Texas Tech University Press)

That's because you just reminded me of the German geologist who told Niven that based upon the stratigraphy of an old river covering one of Niven's buried ruins, it was at least 12,000. years old. I can't for the life of me recall the geologist's name but I posted it on one the threads here before one of the hackings. The guy was down there on business for the Germans and he wasn't one of Churchward's gang of Blavatskyites as far as I can tell. Niven wasn't either and when he hit a blank wall trying to figure out what and when all these odd artifacts and ruins were, his fatal mistake was in letting Churchward have a go at it out of pure frustration. I say fatal because Churchward pulled strings to make sure Niven's no nonsense field reports never got published while his Mu fantasies were taking off. Niven's reports and no doubt those of other work the German was working on are still out there somewhere and maybe some are in the lists you've turned up. I just have to find my copy of Buried Cities to give you some solid references to work with. Here's a little snip from the Texas Tech University Press description:

Niven, however, did continue on and discovered a remarkable expanse of ruins in the rugged state of Guerrero along Mexico’s western coast. During the early 1890s, Niven’s explorations were sponsored by the American Museum of Natural History. Later, he continued to explore on his own. His photographs, letters, diaries, and newspaper accounts are now the only source of information on many sites that were later destroyed by grave robbers, neglect, and the turmoil of the Mexican Revolution in 1911.

His later discovery of twenty-six hundred inscribed stone tablets in the Valley of Mexico aroused considerable controversy, and inspired James Churchward to put forth an occult interpretation of the origins of the Native Americans in The Lost Continent of Mu (1926). They remain controversial to this day.

The writer Katherine Anne Porter frequented Niven’s excavations in the Valley of Mexico and based her first published short story, "María Concepción," on her experiences there. She would write that the "Old Man never carried a gun, never locked up his money, sat on political dynamite and human volcanoes and never bothered to answer his slanderers. He bore a charmed life. Nothing would ever happen to him."

Niven was planning a book about his experiences, but was unable to complete it because of ill health. Buried Cities, Forgotten Gods is based upon his surviving manuscripts and personal papers.


I've backed off from the academic bickerfest surrounding a lot these old sites to clear my head for several months in between making a few forays into the hinterlands to find some new stuff to crank up my enthusiasm for the subject again. In doing so, I've returned to an old favorite of mine, obscure narratives from the period between the two big wars, which usually involve somebody getting caught in a crossfire in some nasty little skirmish everybody's forgotten about. Also in trying to walk that fine line between woo and dissident archaeology, I stumbled across an archive of Naturalist and Science reports from Kansas in the 1880's. I did this in the course of stifling the nagging insistence of a Theosophist friend that I read one of Blavatsky's random lists of correspondences with American explorers and naturalists. Of course in the crosseyed delirium of following breadcrumbs down the rabbit runs of the internet, I neglected to leave any of my own to get back to that spot because I wasn't really expecting to find anything but light entertainment. However, this old Kansas bone doctor was telling about finding ruins buried beneath several feet of guano (which I thought was ironically appropriate) on an island off the Peruvian coast and corresponding walls and ruins on the mainland. By his calculations of the rate of deposition of those guano deposits they were way too many thousands of years old. Normally, I'd be tempted to blow this off as hyperbole or typical 19th century innaccuracy or even a Blavatskyite fudging the figures to fit. Then I got to thinking about all those 5,000 year old ruins and pyramids popping up all along the Peruvian coast in the last decade and thought just maybe the old coot may have really found something ahead of his time. On the other hand it might just be something that's been debunked to detritus a long time ago. Anyway, about that same time I stumbled upon a little known conflict that was going on between Peru and Bolivia at that time, which was no doubt motivated by the rich deposits of potash and guano down on the southern end of Peru; Chile may have been mixed up in it too but fog of war/internet surfing and all that. The area was ceded to Peru and there's a tourist resort around there now that I also had never heard of but came up again when I was following the Chilean earthquake news. I'd been thinking for quite a while there was an American Gobekli Tepe buried in the bird manure down there somewhere and it might be that it's buried in the equivalent paper manure as well. Every now and then someone finds a diamond ring in the sewer, you know. :lol:

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Post Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:45 pm

Re: Human Lice Study

I found a copy of Buried Cities, Forgotten Gods in a library nearby, but I will need to get a library card from Los Angeles County to check it out. Time for my more creative side to kick into action since I would like to get to the bottom of the "12,000 year old" buried ruins.

Niven, however, did continue on and discovered a remarkable expanse of ruins in the rugged state of Guerrero along Mexico’s western coast. During the early 1890s, Niven’s explorations were sponsored by the American Museum of Natural History.

The museum may have his papers stored in boxes in the basement (that is where a part of Dorenberg's collection wound up). I will ask them about Niven's collection.

I stumbled across an archive of Naturalist and Science reports from Kansas in the 1880's. ...However, this old Kansas bone doctor was telling about finding ruins buried beneath several feet of guano (which I thought was ironically appropriate) on an island off the Peruvian coast and corresponding walls and ruins on the mainland. By his calculations of the rate of deposition of those guano deposits they were way too many thousands of years old.

Guano and potash actually started the Pacific War between Chile and Bolivia/Peru in 1879-1884. Bolivia started taxing Chilean companies who were operating on the coast and it didn't go over big. This recap is as good as any: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific.

My father-in-law (RIP) was born a Bolivian, a full-blood Quechua. He had a great-aunt who fought in that war (yes, a rifle-toting woman) and I could tell he was bitter about Bolivia becoming landlocked because of Chile. He spoke fluent English (Purdue engineer), Spanish and Quechua. Unfortunately, I didn't make much use of that before he died.

I'd been thinking for quite a while there was an American Gobekli Tepe buried in the bird manure down there somewhere and it might be that it's buried in the equivalent paper manure as well. Every now and then someone finds a diamond ring in the sewer, you know.

Possibly. Peru is the end terminus of the South Pacific route that the Hopis maintain they took on their way to the Americas. When sea levels were lower, islands stretched clear across the Pacific, making the crossing easier than today. If you haven't done so, I recommend reading this article by Steve Wyatt: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2985042/Ancie ... c-Voyaging.

It is remarkable that cities are established in South America and then appear to spread north to Central America, and so on.
ROXRCUL

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Post Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:26 am

Re: Human Lice Study

Lots of good points, Cogs. The Pacific War is the one I read about, oddly enough in a search to see if there were still any cheap Chilean Mausers still floating around on the market (apparently there aren't) because they fall under the antiquities loophole and I could order one through the mail just like in the days of Lee Harvey Oswald. Relax, I'm not getting political activist ideas: I just collect weaponry from that time period when it's cheap enough. :lol:

I may have mentioned I ran into an itinerant flint knapper married to an Ecuadorian woman, several years back. They made frequent trips to the US as part of a little tourist guide business they had going. On one trip they wound up visiting some Hopi and everyone was surprised they could understand each other's language. Well, the Hopi weren't, the knapper said they acted as if they had been expecting her.

I'm sure you are going to find something from Niven in the Museum of Natural History, but Manuel Gamez, who overshadowed Niven like Edison overshadowed Tesla, gets all the limelight there and Niven is scarcely mentioned. Gamez is the one who waged a war in the Mexican press with Niven claiming his finds were a fraud because there were no ancient men in the Americas similar to Europe. Bear in mind, Gamez was educated in the US where Hrdlicka reigned supreme at the time. When you get that library card you are going to find what a wealth of knowledge was buried alive when Niven became marginalized. The book omits the evidence that claims Niven was tricked by workers at the clay pits with regard to the stone tablets. In fact, it presents quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, but you can come to your own conclusions when your read it. I think recent discoveries in San Luis Potoai confirm what Niven was finding was part of a widespread indigenous symbol system though it may have younger than Niven estimated or older than contemporary archaeologists think.

Oh an women toting guns in revolutions south of the river are not in any way surprising; its expected. There were plenty of Sandinista women packing iron when Managua fell in '79 and I'm sure their numbers have increased since I was down that way.

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:00 pm

Re: Human Lice Study

I am surprised that the Mexican government allowed William Niven to sell artifacts to financially support his expediditions. Unfortunately for Niven, having some sort of relationship with James Churchward discredited him. Anyway, here are a couple of online articles about him before I go snooping throuh the basement of the AMNH:

http://www.chapmanresearch.org/PDF/Nive ... Mexico.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=55YBAA ... ry&f=false
ROXRCUL

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:59 pm

Re: Human Lice Study

Cognito wrote:I am surprised that the Mexican government allowed William Niven to sell artifacts to financially support his expediditions. Unfortunately for Niven, having some sort of relationship with James Churchward discredited him. Anyway, here are a couple of online articles about him before I go snooping throuh the basement of the AMNH:

http://www.chapmanresearch.org/PDF/Nive ... Mexico.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=55YBAA ... ry&f=false

Given conditions and attitudes toward the Indians in the days prior to the Revolution, it is no surprise whatsoever to me. The pride in national indigenousl treasures is a relatively recent thing. Remember, Niven was an establised mineralologist and miner well before he moved to Mexico and made his living from selling gems and minerals both in New York and Arizona. In those days selling artifacts was view little differently than selling crystals and petrified wood. Same for fossils. The Mexican government's proprietary protection of its Pre-Conquest heritage came well after nationalizantion of its mineral resources. Even in the 70's border customs officials turned a blind eye to the hundreds of Aztec, Mayan and other Indian figurines brought up almost daily; I saw many museum quality collections in upper middle class homes in McAllen, Harlingen and other Valley towns. There were even better ones in Matamoros and Reynosa across the river.

I think if Niven had known the damage Churchward would do to his work he would have used him for backfill in one of his excavatiions. The 1897 Geological Society best represents other reports you will find in his biography, Buried Cities. The Xochipala figurines are still on display or at least they are photo catalogued at the Museum of Natural History and I suspect Harvard has a few of its own. I didn't open up the Chapman pdf but it looks like the one I have saved; it contains a page or two from Buried Cities with a trench profile and IIRC a description of the metal working kit and ashen bones he found at Atzcapotzalco. The tablets are largely in somebody's private collection in Austin or Houston, though the MNH is claimed to have some. After Churchward, it's not hard to imagine they were deaccessioned and found their way in private collections as well. I tried to track down what happened to Niven's artifacts that were in a natural history museum in Austin with the help of an archivist from TARL who is cited in Wicks & Harris' biography, but they too were deaccessioned and offered to nobody knows how many institutions in Texas. I seriously doubt they were sold to private collectors although such a thing is not impossible in Texas. As I said, I think Niven's discoveries were important and conceivably Pre-Olmec. I would like to see them turn up to be Pre-Archaic, but realisically that's a long shot.

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Post Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:01 am

Re: Human Lice Study

...I think Niven's discoveries were important and conceivably Pre-Olmec. I would like to see them turn up to be Pre-Archaic, but realisically that's a long shot.

Alright, there go the artifacts. What ever happened to the Omitlan site? Or, am I getting ahead of myself before reading the book?
ROXRCUL

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Post Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:57 am

Re: Human Lice Study

I was never able to find out much about later excavations of Omitlan and the numerous other ruined cities along the ridge Niven explored. They were so extensive that I am certain INAH took a great interest in them but there was not much to be found when I looked a few years ago. I may have my searches archived on the old read only forum at Anarchaeology.com but as I dimly recall, an annoying poster was berating me for my inability to find precise coordinates for satellite searches. There is enough information in Buried Cities for you to locate the general area but as I said, my searches back then failed to turn up a specific modern archaeological site related to them aside from the Xochipala figurines and pottery discussions. As I recall my searches lead me into Zapotec material and the newer discoveries indicating they were considerably older than previously thought and possibly contemporary with the Olmec. My memory is quite fuzzy on all the details since so much time has passed and other subjects seized my attention. The political tensions which have dominated that area since 1994 made me lose any hope that I would ever be able to return there to search for myself.

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Post Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:31 pm

Re: Human Lice Study

Finally was able to register and log on!

Just a reminder for you guys: If in your surfings you come across some photos of ancient skulls, please contact me. In the Pleistocene Coalition News newsletters we talk about the Dorenberg skull from the Valsequillo area (Sangamonian, greater than 80,000 years) and Solorzano's skull cap from the Guadalajara area with classic Homo erectus measurements. I soon will add the Ostrander skull cap, from central California (brow ridges!). That one we have a photo of, but the file is buried somewhere in one of three buildings, and I haven't unearthed it yet.

Surely there are photos and drawings of other "odd" skulls from the Americas rattling around out there! I'd like to showcase them in various issues of the newsletter. Perhaps when we have enough of them we can get some of the shy museum curators to dust off their "skulls in the closet" and bring them to public view!

Virginia
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Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Human Lice Study

Virginia,
Glad you are finally able to post on your own website.

I have bunches of photos and sketches in the various papers we have collected through the A&M library system. Unfortunately they are buried within the .pdf files but they can be extracted using screen capture and crop and saved as jpeg files. One of the most robust (brow ridges) was the adult from the Horn Shelter double burial approx. 9500 BP.

There are also some very robust fragments in the "Lund Collection" in Copenhagen. These were collected back in the 1840s by Peter Wilhelm Lund from Sumidoro Cave in Brazil. The only published paper is in German and we have not got an English translation yet.

BTW, don't get fooled by Alan Bryan's calotte that was published in his 1978 book. It was 'lost' in the museum for 20+ years and when finally rediscovered was CT scanned and determined to be a fake.

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Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Human Lice Study

Wasn't Bryan's calotte claimed to be one of Lund's? It's been a very long time since I read the the details of the faked skull, could you give a brief synopsis?
Allan_Shumaker wrote:Virginia,
Glad you are finally able to post on your own website.

I have bunches of photos and sketches in the various papers we have collected through the A&M library system. Unfortunately they are buried within the .pdf files but they can be extracted using screen capture and crop and saved as jpeg files. One of the most robust (brow ridges) was the adult from the Horn Shelter double burial approx. 9500 BP.

There are also some very robust fragments in the "Lund Collection" in Copenhagen. These were collected back in the 1840s by Peter Wilhelm Lund from Sumidoro Cave in Brazil. The only published paper is in German and we have not got an English translation yet.

BTW, don't get fooled by Alan Bryan's calotte that was published in his 1978 book. It was 'lost' in the museum for 20+ years and when finally rediscovered was CT scanned and determined to be a fake.
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Post Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:05 am

Re: Human Lice Study

David,
Still got your copy of Dewar's Bones? The epilogue has a much better synopsis than I could give.

Alan Bryan did mention the Lund collection and IIRC he did include a sketch of one of the robust crania from the Poch(1938) report.

BTW, Alan Bryan died last April. Mammoth Trumpet had an article on his career.
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